A Basektball Coach don't matter...If you can't RECRUIT, you will lose

Question

and Horn evidentlly can't recruit...Recruit players and watch the W's start coming in...We could have Coach K and he would still get his ass kicked here...got to get players or don't have a chance...if you can't recruit leave...Period!!

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by tmerritt.

Answer 1

If Coach K came here for next year with his coaching prestige and the way recruiting is in college basketball with so many one and done players we could make a deep tourney run his first year and a national title run his second. But were not gonna get Coach K. We have to look for someone with coaching and recruiting ability and hope after some years of building he can produce some wins and turn into the next Coach K. Unfortunately Horn has showed neither.

This post was edited on 2/21 2:04 PM by 30middle

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by 30middle.

Answer 2

When Eddie Fogler was our coach, he said you can't recruit in SC. His opinion, not mine.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by johnnyplaid.

Answer 3

i agree completely...it hard to get mcdonalds all americans to come to South Carolina because we been down for soooo long

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by tmerritt.

Answer 4

And you can't get great players with nobody in the stands.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by yeasos.

Answer 5

I know GM could get top players in here guys...all he would have to do is let his recruits watch his games this year and sell them the USC's atmosphere like it is at Willy B.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by scgcwb.

Answer 6

I am so sick of hearing about Greg Marshall. Some of yall act as if he is the only coach in the country who could come in here and turn things around.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by HRPuff...;Stuff.

Answer 7

Bingo, empty stands leaves an impression.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by HuntsvilleCock.

Answer 8

Actually, he's the only established head coach with NCAA tourney credentials that actually wants the job.

Period.

He's also the only coach with established credentials that is in South Carolina's price range, or at least he is in the Gamecock's price range for now.

If he makes a deep run in the tourney, he will be out of South Carolina's price range.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by PutSpur2Fur.

Answer 9

Greg Marshall would get every single 5 star player in the country.period

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by jeff2001.

Answer 10

Lou Holtz brought in recruits just with the sheer power of his reputation. by 2001 we had 3 "Mr. Footballs" in our backfield by 2001. Marshall recruited superstars to WSU, he can do it here, and more importantly he can also coach 'em up.

Do I think Marshall is the only possible choice? No. Obviously there were many who thought Cremins was the only choice in 95, and we ended up getting NCOTY Fogler which was hardly a booby-prize. We can do some things, but right now Marshall is the obvious choice, go after him with all we've got.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by CaliCock.

Answer 11

That's BS. Frank McGuire did a pretty good job of recruiting. A lot of you guys are not old enough to remember those days, but we had an unbelievable basketball program after Coach McGuire got here. You need a "name" coach to come to SC, because our tradition does not help recruiting. Ala, Steve Spurrier and Frank McGuire!! We have to have someone that has tradition behind the name of the coach, because as much as we would like to believe differently, SC has very little tradition in any sport with the exception of baseball.

Link: scocks

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by scocks.

Answer 12

Are you certain that Marshall wants the job, or is that an educated guess which a lot of people share?

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by atl-cock.

Answer 13

Oh you can get ( and we covered the lack of recruiting or the recruiting basically in a two state area weeks ago) recruits here , if you sell the idea the 5 guys you are bringing in at one time will be your starting lineup and once they begin to win the fans will show.

Its not that difficult nor has recruiting changed all that much over the last x number of years. You go after 5 kids who can make an immediate impact and turn them loose..next year 5 more , third year ( unless you are singing one and done's which Carolina needs to consider) 3 or so more , by year 4 you have 5 seniors 4 juniors 3 sophs and the rest made of freshman.

You just have to sell the fact that your first class is THE TEAM and what goes from there depends on just how good of a group you bring in.

HOWEVER and AGAIN - you can not do this by recruiting South and North Carolina as Horn has done for the most part. Gotta go Coast to Coast and World Wide no other way today

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by Carolina Cat.

Answer 14

That's because we still have a coach. Once Horn is fired a number of qualified candidates will prolly step up.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by HRPuff...;Stuff.

Answer 15

In the last two signing classes Horn has 3 - four stars and 6 - three stars. That makes an average of 3.33 stars.

SOS has one five star and an average of 3.25 over the last two signing classes.

Lets get past the recruiting angle. And one of his four stars decided to play football and kill off months of development and team leadership.

There is certainly a problem but lets be factual.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by USC92EEPE.

Answer 16

I think it is a much harder situation than many acknowledge. The normal philosophy is to get the best form in state and add 1-2 from out of state. But if you look at our normal recruiting area, not a lot of high caliber in state talent. We will have difficulty getting quality players from North Carolina. Same with the north Florida area. That leaves the Atlanta area and we will lose out to UGA, GA Tech, Florida if they want them and maybe Tennessee.

I know that there are some quality players coming up but the last couple years have been lean. When you have a high quality recruit (Brice Johnson) we will tend to lose them to the North Carolina schools.

And as much as we don't want to hear it, South Carolina doesn't have that great of a reputation outside the region. That makes it harder to draw kids from the northeast. In basketball, a smaller school can recruit quality players if they are in the right area so the small schools in the northeast can keep the talent their unlike football.

That leaves us with the AAU squads. That is an area that the ncaa would like to limit. The AAU coaches have a lot more power and influence than they would like. There are many violation issues that go with it.

At Florida, Donovan had a lot of relationships with the AAU programs and the money men. There was a lot of scrutiny early on. After he pulled in some All American players and built the name, then he could dis-associate from them.

So that leaves a coach with a small state population to draw from, that talent is split between 2 teams, limited drawing power from the surrounding area and little tradition to lean on like Kentucky. That is not a formula for success.

To me, the ideal coaching candidate needs to be able to keep the talent that is in state, here. Ability to recruit the Atlanta and Charlotte area. Have AAU contacts but not mired in it. Ideally, if they could bring 1 or 2 talented guys early then build on it.
You wouldn't have to have 1 coach do all of the above but your staff needs to.

If you could find a name coach that had credibility and get some assistants that were the aau and metro recruiters, that would work.

If we can't afford that, then you get a younger exciting style of coach that has an assistant that can help get the recruit and an x's and o's guy.

I think we tried the 2nd when we got Horn. I'm not sure that he evaluated the situation properly. He needed to do what Bobby Bowden did at FSU early on. Go to the HS coaches, the media, the tournaments on a relentless PR campaign.

Whether it be bad luck or bad decisions, we lost a couple off the team early. That didn't help. Corey Miller didn't help with his campaign against Horn. I believe he helped chase off the recruits this fall.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by b.wun.

Answer 17

Wun - it can not be accomplished in this day and age with instate recruits especially South Carolina basketball players. You gotta think as much as I hate the saying "out side of the box" in this case outside of the limited boundary and outside of the country.

Please take a look at the schools that are in the top 50 of the nation and look at the states and countries the players are coming from.

You gotta do what you gotta do to get the guys in here to begin with and there is a lot that can be down that is legitimately above board.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by Carolina Cat.

Answer 18

That's misleading in the case of South Carolina and Horn.

Leonard was a 4 star - but I think we all know he's got a ways to go. If his 3 point shot isn't falling, he's not a good enough defensive player to help us out now - and he's not someone that can drive past players and score.


Geathers was listed as a 3 star. I question any ranking that has him as a 3 star. I'm glad to have him. But the guy had barely played any high school basketball and redhshirted last year. He's come a long ways, but let's be realistic. Can he help this team in some ways? Sure and a guy that big can have a high ceiling. But coming in he wasn't what most would expect out of a 3 star recruit.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by Rollerdude123.

Answer 19

Again i will say...Marshall will not get the top players to come to USC

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by wycombecock.

Answer 20

I do not share ur enthusiam on bringing in 5 stars to USC...and if they came we wud be under NCAA investigation almost immediately. Unless unless we get a named coach that brings a pipeline (AAU). Mcguire had the NYC pipeline where ever he went. And he brought it here. After we left the ACC it dried up. Why? The players went to the winning teams. Florida had the state of Florida to offer. Vandy has a named coach. Other than those two all othrt SeC teams have been up and down to include us...sorry for the long rant but we have a long road ahead to become a name in MBB....

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by wycombecock.

Answer 21

I used Rivals ratings from this site. I don't know how to be any more neutral than that. I would expect that if you reviewed the 57 football recruits from the last two classes you will find some four star projects and failures as well.

I guess Horn should have known that Leonard would not have the touch he had in HS even with wide open shots. Anyone remember Connor in his first couple of times playing, I guess SOS had not coached him up yet.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by USC92EEPE.

Answer 22

I know you used the rivals rankings but you can't use them in a vacuum. you have to use them and then use common sense based on what your eyes tell you when watching games over the course of a season.


A football team can afford to miss out on some 4 star guys. A basketball team can't afford too much at all - especially when that particular player starts some games, and plays as much as he does (without fear of being sat down when he takes bad shots)

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by Rollerdude123.

Answer 23

OK,
Last quote so I am not misunderstood. You now have the benefit of in season play to rate a recruit. You are rating a player, not a recruit.

I don't see where recruiting (in the past) has been the larger issue. That it. So it may be player development, scheme, running players off, bad fcking luck. The kids play fine for 15 min and suck for 5. I don't understand it. I do believe recruiting in the future will be hard for anyone.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by USC92EEPE.

Answer 24

I believe we've won the SEC East a couple of times before. Did we have any McDonalds All-Americans on those teams? NO! A Good coach could have had this team be at least .500. this year. The players have basketball talent. The coach just has no coaching talent. You don't need McDonalds All-Americans to be good, winning, competitive basketball team. You just need good solid players and a coach to teach them good fundamental basket and to play as a team. Solid players we have, the coach we don't.

This post was edited on 2/21 10:54 PM by T8erH8er17

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by T8erH8er17.

Answer 25

back to the original point. ever hear of butler or gonzaga? a coach makes a huge difference in player development.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by bhsrebel.

Answer 26

I beg to differ. A really good coach doesn't need a team full of four and five stars to have a good team.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by picock.

Answer 27

Get a coach like Calipari who has pictures of the NCAA infractions committee, Nekkid in a room full of goats, then you are free to go buy players to come play for one year and then go to the NBA. Pretty soon, we would be in the Final Four.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by dirtydomincker1.

Answer 28

The main reasons the team loses is poor shooting and lack of offensive and defensive play calling. It would seem even in smaller colleges you could give a couple scholarships to guys that can shoot. They don't have to be world beaters, just someone who can knock down an open three. Yes and the old school technique of blocking out and making stick backs. Simple things that are not addressed. The question is do you really want to see this for another year or more?

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by Garnet chicken.

Answer 29

I know most of you are older and not students, but you really should walk around campus some.

We had open tryouts for the basketball team this year. There were posters all over campus inviting men to come tryout.

Think about that! We are a SEC program in the fourth year of a coach having open tryouts.

We are a SEC program that ranks in the low 200s in most stats with a fourth year coach that had open tryouts.

It is a lot worse than most of you think. We should at least be able a top 100 program.

If the NCAA tournament went to 192 teams (top 64 getting byes to play the winner of the first round of 128), then I don't think we make the big dance. We might make the NIT based on fan base.

Keeping Horn makes no sense. It is either get coach that can at least make us not be an embarrassment to the school and alumni or do away with the program.

If we did a South Carolina tournament of USC, Clemson, Wofford, PC, COC, Coastal, Winthrop, and Furman, then how far do you think we make it? Seriously, how do we stack up against those schools? We beat Clemson. Do we want anything to do with the rest of them?

We can't out recruit Wofford and Furman? You people are full of excuses for Horn. I like the guy, but I like winning more.

Seriously, lose you best player and you can't beat Elon and/or Tennessee Valley State? With your best player you can't win half your games?


What have we done in four years other than beat #1 UK at home? That is pretty much it. Is that worth losing 2/3 of your games a season and a couple to Elon & Tennessee Valley State?

Our fan base needs to get some pride in the school and demand better than this crap!!!

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by swusc.

Answer 30

If you don't thin Marshall can't recruit nationally, just take a look at his roster. Almost every player is from a different state. He also has one Nigerian player and has 2 or 3 international players in the past who have been very good (i.e. Craig Bradshaw at Winthrop; played for New Zealand Olympic team and FIBA World Championships). He also has two very good 7 footers.

So are you telling me Marshall can lure guys to Wichita, KS but not to COlumbia, SC? He's pulling guys out of NYC, Texas and Vegas. GM is also an excellent recruiter on the AAU circuit, especially Atlanta. He signed a couple 3-4 stars out of ATL while at Winthrop.

Link: http://www.goshockers.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=7500&SPID=2851&SPSID=61183

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by Southern Drawls.

Answer 31

Wow - someone has actually taken the time to do a little research as well as understands the concept of recruiting hoops players today.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by Carolina Cat.

Answer 32

Speaking of shooting, rebounding and converting buckets, Wichita State is #8 in the nation in Field Goal Percentage. That is amazing if you think about it. Not to mention, they are #18 in Rebound Margin, #19 in Scoring Offense and #27 in Free-Throw Percentage. Very telling stats in regards to coaching. Tells you his team plays with great effort, takes good shots and executes fundamentals. What more do you need to know? The man can recruit -- and he is an even better coach.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by Southern Drawls.

Answer 33

I disagree as it relates to Marshall. He has never had a chance to coach "one and done-rs" and I doubt he would given the chance to the future. He develops players and recruits team-first guys. He has been known to bench a player for being selfish and taking bad shots. Very rarely do you see him play less than 10 guys. Everyone contributes. Pretty good for a guy who isn't getting blue chippers.

This post was edited on 2/22 12:53 PM by Southern Drawls

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by Southern Drawls.

Answer 34

Attempting to defend Horn is the most futile thing I can think of. I can't understand why anyone bothers. I guess some people who understand that we are going to be stuck with him for another year but can't accept that fact that we are doomed to being an SEC doormat AGAIN next year. You might as well accept the truth that Horn is just a really bad overhyped coach that we got stuck with and save your hope to the year after next when we can finally be rid of Darrin "monkey on our backs" Horn.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by T8erH8er17.

Answer 35

To be honest, I don't know enough about basketball to really evaluate Horn. I also have never been to a practice. I have coached some AAU teams but that doesn't mean that I know anything.

I assume that Coach Horn knows more about basketball than any of us but there is still an obvious problem.

I know I don't like the results. I think, that he made some bad pr moves early, and had the situations with players transferring. We have no idea what the true issues were but it was a hinderance to the success of the program. I would guess that he now has an additional problem in that he has to be very player friendly to avoid a mutiny. That might be why he allows some ridiculous shots to be taken. Maybe all it takes is 1 star player that can allow the other players to fit into a role. Maybe he should hire the Aau coach of a top player and roll the dice

This post was edited on 2/22 4:19 PM by b.wun

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by b.wun.

Answer 36

Garrett Stutz, Wichita State's starting center, chose WSU over Kentucky and Marquette coming out of high school.

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by cocksfan23.

Answer 37

Don't need to know a lot about basketball to evaluate him. You don't even really need to watch the games. All you really need to do to get the idea is look at our team records for all the years he has been the coach and the direction the team is going. I am not saying the records tell the ENTIRE story but it JUST ABOUT does! It doesn't take a basketball wizard to know right now that we have an extremely bad team.

This post was edited on 2/22 4:47 PM by T8erH8er17

Originally posted on Fighting Gamecocks Forum by T8erH8er17.